Talk:Rio Kastle

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What is this

Ur......what is this? — This unsigned comment was made by 68.11.88.99 (talk • contribs) 23:42, December 31, 2011

In episode 34, IV asks Shark how his younger sister is doing. After that, Shark brings her up in the Flashback that follows. Shardsilver (talk • contribs) 04:38, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's worth keeping the page. If the problem is you think the information is false, I think Shardsilver has cleared that up. If the problem is that you think she's too minor to have an article, I wouldn't say so... She is an official character with some kind of role in the series. Although I think we could have a better article name like "Shark's sister" without the "Younger", unless he has other older sisters. -- Deltaneos (talk) 19:27, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

Family name

In case she gets a name soon, what family name will we use for page name? Japanese (Kamishiro) or English (Kastle)? If her name is in Japanese, I don't think combining it with English family name would make sense. -- The Goblin  I'm feelin' the flow  11:56, June 25, 2012 (UTC)

Brianna Stone was Tetsuko Stone until we got her dub first name. The same will occur here. --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 12:07, June 25, 2012 (UTC)

Proper name

Are we sure the spelling is Rio and not Ryo, similar to her brother's Japanese name? If that's the case, I wouldn't be surprised if her English name becomes "Regina". But I have a feeling this page should be Ryo Kastle for now. --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 16:27, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

Well, using Japanese pronunciation, that would sound like "Road" without the "d" sound. if you hear someone calling out Ryoga's name, you get the idea. 24.83.215.20 (talk) 17:42, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

I thought the "Ryo" in "Ryo Bakura" pronounced "Rio". --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 16:56, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

"Rio" is not a common Japanese name, spelled like this it sounds pretty Spanish. "Ryo" is in fact a Japanese name, that is used for both genders. Dunkles Magiermädchen (talk • contribs) 17:18, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

No, I think her name is really Rio, not Ryo. Because, see: her name is written in Katakana, which is, how can I say, a simple alphabet; names are usually written in Kanji, which is a more complex alphabet (and the Kanji characters have a reading, which is used to form the name, and a meaning, so many times a character's name's writing is chosen by his personality or plot). Also, Katakana is usually used for foreign words or technical terms, instead of Hiragana, which is usually used for normal Japanese words - so, I think her name is a foreign name, indeed, instead of a Japanese one. Both Shark and Bakura were cited. Compare the particle "Ryo" in each character's name:

• Shark: 凌 (Kanji)
• Bakura: 了 (Kanji)
• Rio: リオ (Katakana)

So I'd say we should keep it "Rio".LegenaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 20:09, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

I didn't realize her name was actually shown written somewhere. --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 20:38, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

Deck

Yeah, don't know if she is a ice deck duelist but the title of 79th episode said she is the Ice Queen. [1] --E.G.G. (My Contributions) 17:51, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps. We have to wait and see. --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 18:03, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, In the mean while i guess these episodes can be added, if they aren't already. --E.G.G. (My Contributions) 18:16, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

I believe it is an Ice deck, as all her monsters so far and most of spells and traps are ice themed. Seeing she uses a deck of water attribute wing beast Ice seems likely as usually when people use wing and water they get ice in most media I've seen.Mariya Ranevskaya (talk • contribs) 03:40, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

Twin?

Was she ever said to be Shark's twin sister? As far as I know she is Shark's little sister. LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 01:11, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

I'm almost 100% positive it was stated somewhere, I just can't remember where. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:29, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

She is his confirmed twin it was stated in the magazine article that was released slightly before Zexal II the one that confirmed her, rei and gilga as new characters(plus the two have been shown to be in the same school grade), but yes it is confirmed. — This unsigned comment was made by ‎72.216.8.65 (talk • contribs) 03:38, November 5, 2012

Can you show us the link to that image or wall'f text article of the reason why they are twin after all please? --iFredCat 11:50, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

[2] --The Goblin 12:19, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

I don't waste my time registering myself in there as member, sorry. --iFredCat 12:26, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

Shark's twin younger sister. She's a strong kinda girl, with a high-class family's daughter feel to her, and she's a super high level Duelist. --E.G.G. (My Contributions) 12:34, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, that's right, it is written "双子の妹" ("twin sister"). By the way, Fred, if you wanna check the pic, here. LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talk • contribs) 20:42, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

Dub Name

We know that her last name is "Kastle" because obviously Shark's twin sister but not sure about her first name (dub). We will know her first name soon when some episodes are dubbed in English.--Power32840 (talk • contribs) 18:05, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

They'd better keep the name Rio. As far as I can see, there's no reason to change it. RedDrgn (talk • contribs) 04:14, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

If it isn;t Rio I wonder what craziness they'd think of, Shark's real name in the original, Ryoga sounds like his sister's, Rio. So Hopefully if she has a different name in the dub it isn't something like that, though for some reason Regina keeps popping up in my head since Shark's real dubbed name is Reginald.--Mariya Ranevskaya (talk • contribs) 03:38, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

Yuma Doesn't Say her Name

Yuma never called her by her name. He keeps calling her "Shark's Sister" which annoys her. Rio once call Yuma Kite which was funny. During her duel, Yuma called her other names (I forgot. One of them is Emo Shark). -Jlee1 (talk • contribs) 21:16, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

Nicknames

It Seems Rio is Given a Nickname By Yuma And Shark Calls Her Ice Queen And Yuma calls Her Sharks Sister and SharkSis These Three Nicknames Are Discover in Episode 79 (14:00, November 21, 2012 (UTC))

Does Rio Possess Powers?

I Think Rio Possess Powers or Abilities in Episode 79 Her Eyes Are Red Not Evil
Glowing And The Start of ZeXal II She Was Able to Sense The Barain's Coming to Heartland And Episode 81 She is Seen With a Aura Not Evil Later in a Preview Episode She Felt Another
Barain I Think Rio Possess An Abilities Like Luna
I Believe Rio Has Abilities like Luna Maybe She is Able to See Astral Maybe
(ZombieLionel (talk • contribs) 01:32, November 26, 2012 (UTC))

Be careful with double posts. But I could agree with ya, Rio may have that kind of mysterious power like Runa do. --iFredCat 01:39, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe it has something to do with the card IV/Quattro used on her during their duel that put her in the hospital in the first place, Tron/Vetrix used powers from the Barian world during the World Duel Carnival and that card could have come from the Barian World like some of the cards Vector used and Rank Up Magic Barian Force and then left some trace of the Barian World's energy in Rio, which as a result lets her sense the presence of People in the Barian world when they arrive on Earth like she did when Gilag and Misael showed up.Mariya Ranevskaya (talk • contribs) 03:35, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

Dat running-on sentence! --iFredCat 03:39, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

Everytime he comments, i get lazy reading because the way he comments is very difficult to read. ----SharkTenjo 13:17, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, sorry but bad grammar. Anyway all we know is she seems able to sense a Barian and a bit of prediction. Anything else right now is speculation. On a sidenote Luna can only talk to Duel Spirits; that hardly is the same as Rio's. Lets not discuss any farther things until we have more info (talk pages are not to be used for speculating). Shardsilver (talk • contribs) 14:04, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

This isn't really meant for the page, just something I wanted to add to the conversation. A friend of mine has a theory that Rio and Shark are Barians, specifically Merag and Nasch. Seems kind of plausible, though still speculation. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 16:27, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

That indeed seems to be the case. The anime pretty much hints that: Durbe seems to have quickly built up respect for Shark. And who else did he respect (alot more, but that's obvious considering the situation)? Nasch. Pretty much the only questions that remains are: What happened to them (they're clearly not roleplaying)? How did they let themselves be toyed with by normal humans like IV (in Rio's case, even put in a long coma)?94.208.111.145 (talk) 23:28, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

If that was true, then how did Shark not displaying his Barian trait at all? Are you treated Shark like Rua (Leo) that don't see the spirit like Runa did? --iFredCat 23:31, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

Not just that, but how is it possible that they are Barians when they are both in a flashback at a carnival when they were kids that was obviously on Earth? NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 23:34, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

able to see astral?

i believe rio is able to see astral after yuma's duel with alit, Tori and Rio Walk up to him she is looking where astral is did she Get The same thing like shark and tori able to see astral? (204.237.118.11 (talk) 11:56, January 17, 2013 (UTC))

Cards in the flashback

I don't think cards in the flashback of Rio in episode 91 can be added to her deck since Rio and Shark were editting the deck together so we don't know whose card is this so I suggest removing it or righting it in a flashback deck along with monster reborn and blizzard falcon in both characters' decks. Dark Soul Taker (talk • contribs) 16:48, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

I would agree. They were flashback cards from years ago. When that happens, we usually list it in a "Past Deck" section or something like that. This is different in that two of the card were actually used by here later, but I don't think that's a reason to break consistency. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 18:19, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

According to what you said that doesn't mean the card isn't hers so let's just make a past deck in both characters' pages and add those 3 cards in them. Dark Soul Taker (talk • contribs) 18:34, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Shark said, Rio always asked him which cards she should put in her Deck when they were younger, so they are obviously Rio's and not Shark's cards. Dunkles Magiermädchen (talk • contribs) 19:04, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Name

is there any official source on her named being spelled Rio, rather than the much more Japanese common Ryo? Especially considering Ryoga.--RexGodwin (talk • contribs) 14:13, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Just the kana spelling, used in her name.

• リオ / りお = Rio
• リョ / りょ = Ryo
• リョウ / りょう = Ryō

There's a similar section above. -- Deltaneos (talk) 14:45, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Rio is Merag

So I guess the confirmation which many desired is here. The same goes for Shark.

潘めぐみ(HAN MEGUMI) ‏@han_meg_han

遊戯王ZEXAL。第120話。神代璃緒でありメラグでもあり。一つの身体に二つの魂。その一つが、遊馬たちと対峙するバリアンのもので。私自身も、この運命を受け止めると共に、すべては凌牙のため、ナッシュのため、璃緒は、メラグは、どこまでも彼と共に行くのだと、揺るぎない決意を胸に演じて。

This is from Han Megumi, the voice actress of Rio's twitter. You can believe her words or not. I'm pretty certain that no one will merge the Merag and Rio page anyway due to everyone wanting to see Rio in Barian form first. However, if you want a textual confirmation, here it is. She is saying that she is Rio and Merag at the same time. Two souls occupy one body (The other soul being the Rio that previously died in the car crash). Samhiuy (talk • contribs) 16:01, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Leaving name as Rio Kastle?

Shouldn't we rename this article Merag? It seems more fitting considering that she obviously no longer sees herself as Rio anymore. Also, the Seven Barian Emperors article calls her Merag.Over-HundredLegendaryChaosShiningNumbers (talk • contribs) 01:54, September 27, 2013 (UTC)

i agree. the seven barian emperors pages have there barian name and barian picture. (Superlmno (talk • contribs) 02:35, September 27, 2013 (UTC))

I don't agree to this. Rio/Reginald are the names we've been familiar with since their anime debuts. ChaosGallade (talk • contribs) 16:40, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

Since pretty much the exact same debate is happening at Talk:Reginald Kastle#Leaving name as Reginald Kastle?, further comments should probably be left there. -- Deltaneos (talk) 12:05, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

over 100 number

ok guys seriously we all know rio's over 100 number is number 103 it was part of the 100 numbers and barian emperors page till someone removed why is that we know merag is number 103 right ? (ZombieLionel (talk • contribs) 18:11, September 30, 2013 (UTC))

• Sigh* I don't think anyone doubts that she will get Number 103, but is there any source that there are only 7 Over-Hundred Numbers? Additionally I know it says they are the signature cards of the Seven Barian Emperors] but that doesn't necessarily mean exclusively. Pedantic? Yes. But we don't have proof we are as close to it without having it as possible... --slave(command) 22:55, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

Xyz Series

I'm seeing a bit of a pattern in Rio's Xyz Monsters. You think it's safe to say Ice Beast Zerofyne, Ice Princess Zereort, and Number 103: Laguna Zero, the Sub-Zero Funeral Maiden are all part of a series? --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 17:39, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Not really. Other than being Ice-related, there is not much else to it. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 18:18, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

They all share the name Sub-Zero (Ice in English), so that kinda makes them a series, don't it? --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 19:03, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

I guess, but I am not sure. Try to get an Admin's opinion. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 19:06, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Personally, I'd rather wait until we get the official English names for them before deciding the series name. (However, I still feel it will probably be "Sub-Zero" anyways, but the cards will be released "relatively" soon.) --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 00:40, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Infobox pic

Should we use the pic of her human form or her Barian form as the infobox pic? ChaosGallade (talk • contribs) 18:14, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

• We SHOULD use her Barian form, as that is her true form, but for now we plan on using her human form. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 18:16, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

I would prefer the human form. Firstly, its her more common form. Secondly, just visiting Rio's article right now is a spoiler. No, this wiki doesn't avoid spoilers, but we don't need to wave around flags and scream "SPOILERS!". Having spoilers be that blatant can dissuade people from even using the wiki if they want to avoid them.

I would actually prefer to use the human forms for EVERY Barian Emperor's infobox. With the exception of Durbe, each of them has appeared far more often in their human forms. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 18:37, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Ai, ai, ai…again with the "common" thing? I still think we should use her true form, but whatever. Perhaps we can change it to that eventually, but we should keep it human for now. BTW, we are already "waving a flag and screaming SPOILERS!" by stating upright in the beginning of the article, "she is Merag". NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 18:43, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, reading her article is a spoiler. But right now, clicking on her article and glancing at it is a spoiler. You don't even had to read anything to be spoiled. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 18:52, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Thats not the point! Ahh forget it… Like I said, keep it human now, MAYBE Barian later. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 18:55, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Wikis like those for Naruto and One Piece have tabs on the infoboxs for characters to show how they looked before and after their respective timeskips. You think we could do something similar for the Barians to show off the images of their Barian selves, human selves, and past lives? It might make things easier and only allows a spoiler for if they want to look at the images. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 19:05, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but having a "Barian form" button to click for Shark's/Rio's infobox picture is a spoiler no one can avoid when they first see the page. --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 19:07, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

As long as we update based on the original, we have no choice by to post spoilers. Only way to avoid it would be to go by the dub, but then we'd be a season behind. This is a no-win situation. No matter what you're gonna have spoilers. Get over it, or put some kind of Spoiler alert warning at the top of the page. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 19:15, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

He is right, there is no way to avoid spoilers. I am all for the tab idea. It is a simple solution and besides, like I said, saying "she is Merag" right there is about as bad as the tab thing anyways. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 19:21, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Heck, as long as someone (whoever it is) keeps posting stuff from Neo Arc Cradle, they are giving out Spoilers. The page on C40 = spoiler. Summaries on future episode real or fake = spoilers. You see, unavoidable on a wiki. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 19:24, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Well, THIS wiki anyway. Do we even have a spoiler warning? NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 19:26, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

(reset indent) Did I ever say we should avoid all spoilers? No. I just said we should be careful. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 19:47, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

And the best way to do that is to have a Spoiler Warning. Do we have one of those for this wiki? --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 20:05, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Why are we even regarding spoilers in this? The Barian form is the true form. I understand the uneasiness about doing this to main character pages, but since these are the true forms of these characters, can you guys give me a good reason why we shouldn't use the true form pictures OR do the tab idea (WITHOUT regarding spoilers)? NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 00:46, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

I think giving higher priority to the true form simply because it's the true form is like focusing more on the birth name of someone, who is known to millions more people by a pseudonym or the real life job of an Internet celebrity, over their online activity, because it's what the government recognizes as their job.

I'd say you write articles on people, focusing on what they've done that draws attention, rather than the data they'd put in a census form. If they're famous for more than one thing, you'd focus more on the one they're more famous for, rather than the census-friendly one. As far as I can tell, fans are more familiar with their human forms and more of the series has focused on them in their human forms.

I'm unsure about the tab thing. I wouldn't say I'm totally opposed to it. It just seems its use would be arbitrary. On the One Piece wiki, it's solid and consistent. It's always going to be anime/manga, pre-timeskip/post-timeskip. We don't have just one or two governing uses that would cover all pages. For these few pages, it would be Barian/human. Other pages, people may want to split them by old/young, normal form/Zexal form, masked/unmasked, season 1/season 2, with spirit partner/without spirit partner, Slifer Red/Ra Yellow, school uniform/civilian clothing, one set of clothes/another set of clothes. etc. -- Deltaneos (talk) 01:48, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for that, Deltaneos. Your reasoning makes way more sense than the spoiling thing. But, we don't have to put THAT much into the tab thing (although you noted some good ideas). I am just trying to keep things simple here. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 01:56, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

I agree we don't need that much tabs. My worry is that I don't see where we can draw a line between what the image tabs can and can't be used for. -- Deltaneos (talk) 02:10, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Deltaneos, the tabs for the Barians covers Human form, Barian form, AND past life. I know they once talked about creating separate pages for each past life of the Barians, and that seems senseless, with the tabs it'll help make the pages for the Barians more uniform. Plus they can use it for the three Zexal forms, and what ever other future uses appear. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 02:28, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I am pretty sure they were going to make separate pages for the ZEXAL forms. But, we can make the tabs a regular thing and not JUST for ZEXAL. For example, we can use them for Bruno and also for Z-one. I would seem a little weird to just have them for the Barians…NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 03:11, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

That's what I mean. That's senseless, with the tabs, it's all together and it makes it easier on visitors to the site to keep things straight. They can use it for the Barians, The ZEXAL forms Bruno and Vizor, Atem and Yami, Jaden before and after merging with Yubel, the many forms of Darkness. The list is somewhat endless and can continue to grow as long as they keep making Yu-Gi-Oh! --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 03:39, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Ahh, ok. I see what you mean. As for what they can't be used for, different outfits and the characters at different ages. Doing it for those seems rather pointless. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 04:16, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

I don't know about that. If there is a reasonable timeskip, and a definite change in appearance; I could see it used like that. Heck, they use it like that for One Piece and Naruto. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 04:35, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

I dont think Darkness would warrant an infobox tab.. he only has one form. and possessing someone doesn't count. And yeah, ive thought of that idea when it comes to Bruno/Dark Glass/Antinomy.--RexGodwin (talk • contribs) 04:31, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, well we have to draw the line where it can and can't be used somewhere. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 12:09, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

That might be something to discuss in a forum. All I can think of are The Barians, Maybe the Dark Signers (minus Devack) and the Aporia trio, Jaden pre and post Yubel, and Yami/Atem. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 17:37, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

That sounds about good to me. But, you forgot Vizor/Bruno. Are we forgetting anyone else? NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 17:41, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Nightshourd maybe. He was in control of Atticus and the other guy before he took his final form.--Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 17:51, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

She is, But She isn't

First off, let me just say I'm not trying to rub anyone's nose in this. A long time ago, when we first suspected Shark and Rio of being Nasch and Merag; I believe I brought up the idea that they either the spirits of Nasch and Merag took over the Kastle siblings' bodies, or their parents were Nasch and Merag. Well, today's episode just revealed the former to be true. (spoiler alert) When Vector "killed" Nasch and Merag, Abyss saved them and gave them another shot at life by having them take over Shark and Rio's bodies after the car crash.

With this in mind, do we separate the pages of Nasch and Merag and Kastles, or do we keep them together? --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 15:45, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

We still keep the pages fused, after all Rio and Merag are still the same being, this similar the Bruno and Vizor page.--im gay (talk • contribs) 15:59, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

Not entirely, but I suppose you are right. The Rio we know was using Merag as a soul, just as Shark was for Nasch. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 16:12, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

We don't have a full translation yet, but this does seem to be the case. This article and Shark's would more or less be untouched by it. The Shark and Rio we've always known have always been Nasch and Merag. I would argue a page to cover the lives of their bodies before the accident would be appropriate, perhaps at "Reginald Kastle (original)" or something of the sort. The originals are dead and gone if their souls left their bodies, right? Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 20:35, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

Shark always had memories of the accident, but not of being a Barian. The second that Nasch merged with child Reginald, he became a Barian and thats it. He doesn't seem to retain any of the "original" Nasch's memories, just his Barian form and powers. The child Reginald Kastle is the exact same as the present Reginald Kastle, with the exception of being a Barian. It would make more sense to make a Nasch (original) page. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 20:45, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

Not really, it makes more since to make a either a seperate page or section for the children who died. think about it like this, the person we've known for 131 episodes is Nasch(even if he didnt know he was nasch) Not the child who died.F8lfire (talk • contribs) 20:58, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

So what you are trying to say is that it was always Nasch, but with the child's memories? NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 21:16, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

Basically Yes for the past 131 episode it was always Nasch, but in the body of the child originally know as Reginald kastle F8lfire (talk • contribs) 21:20, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

If it was always the child's body, then how can he be a Barian? The child was human. It makes more sense if Nasch and child Reginald merged bodies, or if they switched bodies, or if the child became Barian. Ugh…there are too many holes to figure this out now. Perhaps we should wait for a translation or maybe the next episode before creating pages? NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 21:30, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

I agree, maybe the translation would help. All I know is pre-car crash, Shark and Rio were humans born to human parents. Post-car crash, Abyss places Nasch and Merag into Shark and Rio's lifeless bodies, making them human with a Barian Spirit. If nothing else, we could write up two pages that are the same save for a few parts, like with Yugi and Yami Yugi/Atem. For example, Rio's and Merag's pages would each tell of their past (Rio: life before the crash. Merag: past life, reincarnation, "death") then post-crash Merag's page could link to Rio's as from the start of Zexal to the start of the current arc, that's who she was. Then with this current arc, Rio's page could link to Merag's, because that who she is now. I admit, it's not a perfect plan; but it's something to consider for this unique situation. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 22:09, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

I am not entirely for it, but not entirely against it either. They are still the same characters but they are still kinda not the same. I still kinda feel like we should make pages for Nasch and Merag before the "human merge" (I guess I could call it?). They had their own lives before merging with kid Reginald and kid Rio. At this point, it is pretty much humans taking on the role of Barians now (or something like that, as I want to be careful about what I say about this due to lack of details). NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 22:38, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

I think your still confused on a few things, Shark and Nasch didnt merge together, The child died and his lifeless body was then inhabited by NAsch's soul, it isnt the body that's important here, its the soul, as the "soul" is what make the character who he/she is. you over complicating this, the child who died in a car crash is not the character we've know for 131 episodes. for instance, when yugi was captured by the seal of orichalcos and the pharaoh soul resided in yugi's body after yugis soul was gone, he was still counted as being the pharaoh, not yugi, this is the same cases, so like i said for the most part is only makes sense to have a separate page, for the two children who died.F8lfire (talk • contribs) 07:01, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

In a way, it IS still Shark. Yeah, Nasch's soul inhabited Shark's body, but he always had Shark's memories from before the crash, remembering nothing about being a Barian. Don't get me wrong, I see your point and I think I understand it now, but you can see the way I saw it. I still feel like we should still create pages for Nasch and Merag before being "reborn"(?). Pharaoh Atem and Yami Yugi are an example of why, since this is somewhat similar to that. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 13:26, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

You guys know that Don Thousand wouldn't allow the death of Nasch and Merag which would ruin his own agenda in obtaining his powers, which he made perfectly clear in episode 129. Some how I have feeling he has something to do with Abyss saving them. (Bring it 'em --- User:Avatarr) 16:21, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

Meh. That is highly unlikely. DT is using them as pawns, and we all know how clever Vector is. Nasch and Merag dying could have been part of his plan the whole time. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 16:55, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

Getting back on topic here, NMBRHNTR64 is right. Yugi and Atem are good examples of why we could/would create pages for Shark and Rio, and Nasch and Merag separately. Yes, Yugi and ATem were two souls in one body (unlike our current situation of different soul in different body), but still, I'm willing to bet that Atem's and Yugi stories were similar for the most part of up until the Doma arc but they operated as one. When Atem/Yami took over for Yugi in his duels, it may be Yami speaking, but it is Yugi thinking. And even when as Yami, people still called him Yugi. Similarly, Merag and Rio may share the same story during the course of the series, but they have different pasts, and as such should be separated. As the season progresses, especially with the alleged episode(s) with Nasch/Shark and Vector dueling with their true memories being revealed; I think we'll have enough to have one page for Shark and 1 for Nasch. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 07:41, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Rocketknight, although should then Reginald Kastle link to the original or to nasch or to a disambiguous or should nash-shark still be called reginald kastle as through the on-screen series hes been called that more where as Nasch is his 'real' name? :s - sorry to conflate the to topics... --slave(command•works) 07:45, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

????????? I'm just going to pretend I understood that. If you want my opinion on how to connect the pages together, I made a suggestion to that early in the discussion. Looking at this page, the current bio does not match the story shown in the episode as it leads readers to assume Merag was born as Rio when in reality she took over after Rio "died". Having two pages will make the whole situation a lot clearer to understand. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 07:58, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

in all honesty i dont see why the situation is so confusing to most people, there should be on page for Nasch/Shark/Reginald and Rio/Merag ( the people we have known for +130 episode), and one for Reginald/Rio(the dead children[we have no reason to believe these children's souls are still present within the bodies of Nasch and Merag]), and as far as people who think the page will be to small, we have pages devoted to useless filler characters that were seen once and never hear from again, so what exactly is the problem with making 2 more pages for this extremely important plot point?F8lfire (talk • contribs) 08:27, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with you entirely! but because of certain people, who say and apparently think such things as: "Rio is Rio who is Merag." - which is about the same level as saying "Because Yugi Muto is Yami Yugi is Pharaoh Atem"

The only reason there is any controversy is because some people are in short either terribly informed or simply stupid - of which neither areour problem as far as being editors to a wiki... IMO --slave(command•works) 08:47, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Ok…so where are we in terms of making separate pages for Nasch and Merag from before they took Shark and Rio's bodies (when they were Barian Emperors and when Vector killed them) and the current Nasch and Rio (becoming Emperors again while possessing the bodies of Reginald and Rio Kastle)? NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 16:16, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Done. See the relevant conversation on Reginald's talk page. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 16:33, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I was already eyeing the page. I either missed something or you misunderstood (although I tried to be clear about that). I meant for pages to be made for Nasch and Merag. Nasch (original) would be before his soul entered dead Reginald (how he was a Barian Emperor and was killed by Vector) and Nasch would be about after he entered dead Reginald (lived as human, eventually found out about being a Barian, etc.). NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 16:54, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

That is to much right there. If you creating an article for those, then that will be no sense. It will be a spoiler. (Bring it 'em --- User:Avatarr) 17:05, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Technically, every character page is a spoiler, so that's not a valid argument. We never knew the Pharaoh's name until near the end of the series, yet we have the character article called Pharaoh Atem. --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 17:08, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah. Consensus seemed to be against a split in that regard when it was brought up in the past though. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 17:09, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

And yet that split is still there. This is a very similar case to Yami and Atem. Like Atem, Nasch and Merag had their own lives long before entering another body. If it was done then, I don't see why it wouldn't be done now. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 18:00, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

I mean the Nasch and Merag thing, not Atem and Yami Yugi. The Atem and Yami Yugi split predates my time here, I'm not actually sure why its done that way. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 18:12, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Ahh. But my point is still there. Atem had an entire life of his own, he died, sealed in Puzzle, brought back by Yugi. Its almost like he had an entire new life, which is probably why it was done that way, but thats just what I always thought. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 18:29, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

He's right. There was a Shark and Rio before Nasch and Merag became SHark and Rio, and so there should be separate pages for them. We may not have as much info on the individual characters as we do with Atem and Yugi, but Zexal isn't over yet. Who knows what new info is yet to arise. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 19:22, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

In all honesty i've never understood why yami and atem have different pages. they're the same person it's like having a page for a character when he's 10 an another for when he's 20, seems more cohesive to have all information pertaining to that person in once coherent article, but anyway this situation is different that Atem/Pharoh, because they are literally the same person, Merag and the child Rio are two different people.F8lfire (talk • contribs) 19:27, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, READ WHAT I SAID BEFORE. I think you two are thinking of kid Reginald and kid Rio. Those pages have already been made. We are talking about Nasch and Merag BEFORE their souls entering the kid's bodies. NOT Rio and Reginald, Nasch and Merag. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 19:29, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

I understand that im just wondering what logical reason is there to have atem and the Pharaoh on two separate pages.F8lfire (talk • contribs) 19:32, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Because they are two separate beings, F8l. Despite the fact that their lives coincided with each other during the first series, they were still themselves. Yugi still lived a normal life (if you could call it that) while "bonded" with Atem. And Atem had his own life before having his spirit sealed in the puzzle, and as someone stated earlier, he was the one who lived through the Doma arc, while Yugi was trapped as a sacrifice for the Great Beast. The same is true here. While Nasch and Merag as the Shark and Rio we know now, they were not like that before the car crash. And so we need to separate the two individuals to avoid confusion.

And this is where we differ NMBRHNTR64 we don't need another page for Nasch and Merag because they are the new Shark and Rio. They became them after the car crash. Unless by some unknown means the original Shark and Rio reinhabit their bodies when this is all said and done. Nasch and Merag are Shark and Rio, and as such (to a degree) are both the humans we knew from the start of Zexal, to now as Barians. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 19:52, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

You are only stating the facts that I already know. And Yami and Atem are technically the same beings. Same soul, different bodies. Nasch (and I also mean Merag when I say the following) had his own life before his soul entered Reginald, as a Barian Emperor. He died, and at the cost of losing his memories, his soul entered another body. Yes, he is TECHNICALLY the same Nasch as before, but when he entered Reginald's body he lived on as Reginald with his memories, not retaining any memories of when he was a Barian. Ergo, if we take a look at Yami and Atem here, Current Nasch and Past Nasch are no different from that situation. There should be a page for Nasch before becoming Reginald, and one for after he became Reginald, leading to Present ZEXAL. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 20:09, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

If they're the same person then it dosent make any sense for them to have 2 separate pages, would you have a separate page for a person who has his memories and then one for when he has amnesia(as this is the case)? hes isn't "technically" the same nasch as before, he is The same person plain and simple.F8lfire (talk • contribs) 20:13, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

I gotta go with F8l on this, it's like Vector and Ray to a different degree. Sure Vector was only acting as Ray, but you don't want to make a separate page for those two, do you? It's the same principle. We've differentiated between the old Shark and Rio, and Nasch and Merag (the new Shark and Rio). We don't need to divide any further than that. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 20:18, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and you're wrong NMBRHNTR64, Atem and Yugi were two souls in one body. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 20:26, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

F8l, if what you say is true, then why do Yami and Atem have separate pages? Rocket, I said Yami, not Yugi. Of course I know Atem and Yugi are not the same, Atem and Yami Yugi are the same. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 20:59, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

1) what i say is true 2) i have no idea why they have separate pages, when there's no logical reason as to why they shouldnt share the same page.F8lfire (talk • contribs) 21:25, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, Yami and Atem are the same. As are Ray and Vector. As are Merag and the current Rio. As are Nasch and the current Shark. You follow? --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 21:19, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

F8l, if Yami and Atem have different pages, can you give any reason as to why Past Nasch and Present Nasch are a different case? NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 21:29, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

I'll give you one. Not only does Atem's page talk about his role in the entirety of the Millennium World arc, it also has his bio from the Forbidden Memories video game. That's why it's separate from Yami. That's why his case is different from Nasch and Merag's, and all the other Barian Emperors.--Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 21:43, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

So, in other words, length of the page is your reasoning? NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 21:55, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

No, differing information. It was merely length of page, I'd be fighting against having the pages on the original Shark and Rio. The past events of the Seven Barians are still apart of who they are, even if they don't really remember their pasts when DT brought them back. To make a page based solely on their past lives is senseless. Atem and Yami are different because they tell different stories. Atem's talks about his life in Egypt. Yami's talks about what he's done since Yugi solved the puzzle. And they are separated because we knew Yami longer than Atem and so it made sense, at that time, to separate the different stories by their corresponding names. The Barians are different; because, as far as we know, they had the same names as Humans as they do Barians, and their past history is still relevant to their Barian lives. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 22:04, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

What do Barian past lives have to do with any of this? Whether the page "tells a story" or not is not relevant. The Barian past lives should have their own page, but that is a completely different conversation, so I am not going to get into that. As for what we are talking about now, I still do not quite understand what you are saying. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 22:19, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

It's not that hard to understand. During the Millennium World arc, both Atem and Yami came into play. Yami was playing an RPG with Baruka which was what awakened Yami's memories of being Atem. Since Atem was a "game character" at that time, that's why it's separate from Yami and yet tells a similar story. The Barians are different because their human histories are still a part of their stories, and affected what they became as Barians; while Atem was a piece on a game that told Yami's true story. Two completely different cases. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 22:30, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I know all that. WHAT DO BARIAN PAST LIVES HAVE TO DO WITH ANY OF THIS?! NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 23:36, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Becuase you seem to think the Barians, Nasch and Merag included, should be divided similarly to Atem and Yami; and I'm explaining to you what they are two different cases entirely. Do you understand? --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 23:39, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

We are not talking about past lives. We are talking about the past Nasch and Merag, the Barian Emperors, not when they were humans who ruled a nation, but when they were Barian Emperors who were killed by Vector. Let me tell you what I think. Nasch and Merag should get their own separate pages from when they were Barian Emperors who were killed by Vector, long before they became the current Reginald and Rio. I think this based on the fact that Yami Yugi and Atem have almost the exact same relationship, and they have their own separate pages. Now, DO YOU UNDERSTAND? NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 03:14, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

You're logic is wrong. Didn't you read anything I typed? The reason Atem and Yami were separate is because Atem was just a game piece in the RPG that told about Yami/Atem's life. Regardless of being reborn as Shark and Rio, their previous existence as Emperors before Vector killed them is still the same as it is now. Nasch and Merag aren't like Aang and Korra who are the same entity but reborn into different lives. Nasch and Merag took over Shark and Rio's lives after they died in the car crash. As such; their past human lives, their Barian lives pre-car crash, and the current lives throughout Zexal are all one story, whereas Atem and Yami were two separate stories. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 03:23, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

maybe we should just rename the shark and rio pages to nasch and merag. (Superlmno (talk • contribs) 03:18, November 28, 2013 (UTC))

What good would that accomplish? --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 03:23, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

... can't help but point out that this would mean we have soemthing like:

A) Human-past-life-Merag/Nasch

B) Barian-past-life-Merag/Nasch

C) Original-Rio/Reginald

D) Amnesiac-barian-soul-Rio/Reginald

E) Barian-Nasch/Merag

And of these 5 distinct different parts of 4 different characters lives, we would have not 4 pages for 4 characters, but ..? what someone wants B to be separate to D, but I think they want D & E to be the same page, everyone with above IQ90 wants C to be different to all the others, I think some people want A and B together because both of those memories where lost...

I understnad why Pharaoh Atem is a separate page to Yami Yugi although I think that is unnecessary but not incorrect as it's essentially the same as having "ZEXAL II" separate from "ZEXAL III", although in the case of YY and PA they could be in either order given the appearance of them vs chronological order...

to apply that to this situation seems silly because it opens up potentially ahving each of these 5 things as separate pages which I don't think anyone wants!

At the moment I would want A & B together and I want D and E together as those groups flow nicely, although I would prefer to see A&B&D&E together under a page called Merag/Nasch rather than Rio/Reginald as those names are their true names - although they are more commonly known as Rio and Shark(which is easy enough to handle regardless);

I know we have already had a few discussions about having Rio>Merag and Reginald>Nasch but at the time it wasn't so much as real name as his past incarnations name, and I am always of the opinion that consistency across the wiki is important hence as "Keith Howard" > "Bandit Keith", then so should these characters - and in turn Rio Kastle would redirect straight to Merag, (same for Shark & Reginald Kastle -> Nasch) with both of them (Merag & Nasch) having the notifier at the top of the page about "did you mean Rio/Reginald (Original) etc.) (with the Naschs also having the whole Shark archetype see shark (archetype))

So what say you all given this? --slave(command•works) 03:45, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

i mean like this. Nasch (Reginald Kastle), Merag (Rio Kastle), Reginald Kastle (Original), Rio Kastle (Original). (Superlmno (talk • contribs) 03:56, November 28, 2013 (UTC))

YAY +1 XD but yeah - open end to everyone, thanks Superlmno =) --slave(command•works) 04:01, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Finally someone is making sense. We kinda have that now as it is, but I'd be ok with renaming the current Shark and Rio Nasch and Merag, for however long that may be. I'm adding that last bit because I have a feeling that after all of this, Nasch and Merag just might go back to being called Shark and Rio. Just a hunch. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 05:19, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Original Barian Nasch and Current Barian Nasch

Was getting messy, so I started a new topic. In response to Rocket.knight:

A game piece in an RPG? Yami Yugi IS Atem, yet they have separate pages. What happened to Atem also happened to Yami Yugi, how are they separate? The whole RPG thing was just Yami Bakura messing with time and Yami Yugi was trying to stop him. Atem and Yami share the same soul, ergo are the same person. However the story goes, the reality of the situation is Yami and Atem get separate pages, Original Barian Nasch and Current Barian Nasch should also get separate pages. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 04:21, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

• frustrated sigh* No they shouldn't! What happened to Atem did happen to Yami, yes, but because they are two separate instants, they are split. That split has happened with the Original Shark and the Current Barian Shark Nasch. THERE IS NO ORIGINAL BARIAN NASCH AS THAT NASCH IS THE SAME NASCH THAT IS SHARK!!!!!! AND THE SAME GOES FOR MERAG/RIO!!!!! --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 05:15, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

LE relevant quote oh wait its from me:

... can't help but point out that this would mean we have soemthing like:

A) Human-past-life-Merag/Nasch

B) Barian-past-life-Merag/Nasch

C) Original-Rio/Reginald

D) Amnesiac-barian-soul-Rio/Reginald

E) Barian-Nasch/Merag

And of these 5 distinct different parts of 4 different characters lives, we would have not 4 pages for 4 characters, but ..? what someone wants B to be separate to D, but I think they want D & E to be the same page, everyone with above IQ90 wants C to be different to all the others, I think some people want A and B together because both of those memories where lost...

I understnad why Pharaoh Atem is a separate page to Yami Yugi although I think that is unnecessary but not incorrect as it's essentially the same as having "ZEXAL II" separate from "ZEXAL III", although in the case of YY and PA they could be in either order given the appearance of them vs chronological order...

to apply that to this situation seems silly because it opens up potentially ahving each of these 5 things as separate pages which I don't think anyone wants!

At the moment I would want A & B together and I want D and E together as those groups flow nicely, although I would prefer to see A&B&D&E together under a page called Merag/Nasch rather than Rio/Reginald as those names are their true names - although they are more commonly known as Rio and Shark(which is easy enough to handle regardless);

I know we have already had a few discussions about having Rio>Merag and Reginald>Nasch but at the time it wasn't so much as real name as his past incarnations name, and I am always of the opinion that consistency across the wiki is important hence as "Keith Howard" > "Bandit Keith", then so should these characters - and in turn Rio Kastle would redirect straight to Merag, (same for Shark & Reginald Kastle -> Nasch) with both of them (Merag & Nasch) having the notifier at the top of the page about "did you mean Rio/Reginald (Original) etc.) (with the Naschs also having the whole Shark archetype see shark (archetype))

So what say you all given this? --slave(command•works) 03:45, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

The only difference between any of the Naschs is that they were amnesiac -_- I don't see how that should create two pages - that it happened for one other case is interesting to note is more similar to the case of the Three Pure Nobles! so there are similarities but ... :/ shouldn't every character that ahs ever had amnesia have two pages -_- cause that is almost the equivelant of what your syaing to have 2 Barain/human Nasch pages. --slave(command•works) 05:24, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't exactly call the Noble amnesiacs, but you make a solid point. They are a must better example then Yami and Atem as to why their would be separate pages for 1 character (which more or less they were as Lester, Primo, and Jakob were all part of Aporia with Lester being "child Aporia", Primo "Adult/Teen Aporia", and Jakob "old man Aporia". --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 05:30, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

yeah no I get that, I just see it that Yami Yugi & Pharaoh Atem ahd more to it just than Memory-loss - otherwise there would be like 30 more pages for every character that we know of that has has memory loss somewhere along the line...

I just wish someone would note how I tried to determine what... YOu know what, I'm going to the forums and going to vent there --slave(command•works) 05:34, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

To Rocket.knight: Yeah, they are the same, just like how Yami and Atem are the same, and they have separate pages, and that should be the same case here. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 05:41, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

At least try and defend your point. Sardeth and I have given a crapload of evidence to disprove you, and you are just ignoring it. For the love of the Almighty One you worship, why should there be pages for Nasch pre and post car crack? --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 05:49, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

(ninja'd by Rocket.knight.777 XD) To NMBRHNTR64: then by my understanding of your reasoning, then A, B, C, D should all have separate pages? Leaving a total of 8 pages for the 1st Human Nash, 1st Barian Nasch, Original Reginald, Reginald-with-Naschs-Soul(-who-later-became-a-Barian) and pages for: 1st Human Merag, 1st Barian Merag, Original Rio, Rio-with-Merags-Soul(-who-later-became-a-Barian)? --slave(command•works) 05:54, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

To Rocket.knight: I wouldn't really call what I saw there evidence, and the only one who seems to have a major problem with me is you. Three Pure Nobles, amnesia, etc., etc. Yeah, I got all of that. The Nobles were just three separate entities representing Aporia's tragedies in life, not exactly the same case here. They all had TOTALLY different personalties, opinions, etc. I am just going by logic here. I believe that this case is similar enough to Yami and Atem that they should get separate pages like they did. That is all there is to it. For the sake of this discussion, I would like to see an admin's take on this. Sardeth, I'll get back to you in a sec. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 06:01, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

To Sardeth: pretty much, but again, I would rather separate the past lives discussion for another time. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 06:04, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

We have been over this, and over this. Yami and Atem are a different case than this. Yes, those were Yami/Atem's memories within the RPG Yami and Bakura were playing, but it was not exactly Yami reliving it. It was the game effigy of Atem who was living it, and that's why they have two pages. This isn't the same as Shark and Rio having flashbacks to their Barian memories pre-crash and reliving their past life. The Merag and Nasch from before the crash is still the same Merag and Nasch that we are currently seeing in Zexal. I will reinstate, Yami was reliving his memories in the RPG, but it was through the game's version of Atem that we saw it. Yami was sitting at the game board the whole time Atem was reliving Ancient Egypt. That's why there is a page for Atem and a page for Yami. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 06:11, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Oh dear. I shall go read up on everything I can find out about the reasoning of the Yami Yugi and Pharaoh Atem. Oh and btw: Rocket.knight.777; how many pages do you want out of this? --slave(command•works) 06:15, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

I'm saying it's fine as is with original Shark and Rio, and Shark/Nasch and Rio/Merag. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 06:18, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

(reset indent) AHA!!!!! I have found the reasoning why Atem and Yami are separate.

"While I would agree with "67.40.169.78", that he is considered the same character as Yami Yugi, seperate articles for Yugi Muto, Yami Yugi and Pharaoh Atem is the best option. There are three sets of people with different stances on this matter.

People who believe Yami is the same character as Yugi. They think Yami should share an article with Yugi, not Atem. People who believe Yami is the same character as Atem. They think Yami should share an article with Atem, not Yugi. People who believe the three are seperate characters.

The first 2 groups would tolerate 3 seperate articles, rather than merge Yami Yugi with the character they don't want. So 3 seperate articles is the closest to satisfying all 3 groups."

This is straight off of the Talk Page for Atem. This counters your reasoning to split the pages of Nasch and Merag further than it is NMBRHNTR64, and for that matter any reasons you have to separate the Barian Emperors' past lives from the current lives, because none of these reasons validate your wants. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 06:22, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

To Rocket.knight: Ok, I just want to be clear here. So the reason why the pages are separate is because the Atem page describes Yami reliving his memories as a game piece, thus treating him like a separate character? (Or something like that?) NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 06:24, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

That was my original thought, but finally someone (me) actually looked at the talk page for Atem. Read what I found.--Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 06:29, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Uh huh. So, in other words, they were separated just to satisfy people? Several of those "groups" shouldn't even exist since Yami and Yugi are definitely NOT the same character. Your own reasoning makes much more sense than the actual one. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 06:32, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps, but you need to remember back then things weren't quite as clear as now. So I take it we've reached an agreement? --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 06:35, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

(ninja'd again ...I got distracted XD)I believe everyone knows that Yugi Muto does NOT = Yami Yugi, but that some people thought that Pharaoh Atem when he sealed his soul, only sealed part of his soul/1 of his Souls (Egyptian cosmology etc) and as such Yami Yugi was only a part of him - that was why I referenced the 3 pure nobles - while that was different circumstances, many people thought that they were similar to Yami Yugi as many people thought that he was only a shard of Atem, - mind you many people though that Yugi Muto was the reincarnated other part of Atems soul XD - i have no idea of the validity of any of this beyond many people thought that --slave(command•works) 06:39, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

My understanding is the reason they are separet is because people couldn't decide/work out what the canon relationship between them was, and one group folded to the others wants. Essentially it was believed that to have Yami Yugi = Pharah Atem was specualtion but that to say Yami Yugi was a part of Atem was also speculation, there where very few that thought anything other as a whole group... --slave(command•works) 06:39, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

As for the actual issue of the Twins, in essence if we did do what you wnat, we would also by the exact same reasoning need to do that for the other 5 emperors. correct? I mean we have previously always considered a reincarnation to be worth a different page so yo have a point. I just despise the comparison to Yami Yugi/Pharah Atem as that is a very hazy ground. --slave(command•works) 06:43, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

To Rocket.knight: I suppose so, but I still kinda want hear and admin's take on this, mostly for future reference. But yeah, if thats the way the people want it, its the way the people want it. Besides, I suppose 4 pages based around one character is a bit much (although I still kinda feel like past lives should get their own pages).

BTW, I apologize to both you and Sardeth if I acted a bit immature before. As you may know, I can get a bit passionate about some things on the wiki. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 06:44, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Who doesn't? Apology accepted and I extend my own. I still can't grasp why you think the Barians' past lives should have their own pages. I mean, their more or less like a character's flashback to their younger years. We don't have pages for kid Yuma and Yuma separately, so why split off a Barian's past life? --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 06:49, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry as well, I've hardly been better than you in this regard, it just seems hmm IDK ...awkward to have what is narratively 4 characters into a break down of their 8 different lives we know of. Eh I suppose it's just me always preferring to see people with the same soul as the same person. --slave(command•works) 06:52, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

To Rocket.knight: Because kid Yuma is just a younger form of Yuma XD. Key words: past life. These are reincarnations, and reincarnations are like Sardeth said, usually have their own pages. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 06:54, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

To Sardeth: So you are saying that were better than me? LOL JK (I know you were XD). I see your point. I totally get how having so many pages based around one character can get a bit, as you said, "awkward". NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 06:57, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Unless of course those past lives still relate to the current ones, like they do here. Unlike Avatar Aang and Avatar Korra who only connect with each other in spirit; the Barians still connect with their past lives in name (I think), abilities, and appearance. What the Barians lack are their memories of their pasts, which they are reclaiming in this current part of the arc. Essentially, the Barians are still their human selves. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 07:03, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

So then it comes down to the wiki typically having separate pages for characters which have reincarnated - but in (I believe all of) those cases they have rarely had a similar personality, so it is more of an informed thing and holds relevance only to friendship circles being similar and justification for magical ability, but in the cases of the 7BE they seem to be much more similar - aye still memory loss but they do seem much more related, so is this enough to justify not following the pattern here? or not... While some of us prefer one way or the other, I believe this case is somewhat different to all other cases - but:

is it different enough? (emphasis not yelling) maybe we have all been asking the wrong questions? :s --slave(command•works) 07:08, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

To Rocket.knight: I am just gonna say this now, THIS IS NOT THE AVATAR WIKI! (LOLZ) Another thing, not really. The Barians do appear to share SOME characteristics with their PLs (Past Lives), but only their human form bears resemblance. And plus, they are not human. Not being the same species kinda calls for separate pages in this situation. Plus, Barians have WAY more abilities than humans do. I guarantee the PLs were not able to shoot energy blasts or fly freely. They do, however share names. This was proven when Past Life Nasch screamed, "VECTOR!!!" and Past Life Vector shouted in response, "NASCH!!!". NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 07:15, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Not some similarities in personality? Oh okay :( XD Maybe I'm looking so hard I'm finding things which aren't there... >.> --slave(command•works) 07:17, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

From what we saw, we can't really tell that much yet about personality for most of them, with a couple exceptions, one of whom being Vector. It appears that either Barian or human, he will always be a sadistic manipulator. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 07:25, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps this isn't Avatar, but it still makes my point. Do you think those human forms were at random? No, they carried over from the past life. DT did bestow upon the Barians great power, but then so did the LOD to Sartorius. And Sardeth is right aspects of their human personalities carried over into their Barian life. Alito still looks for a worthy foe to fight and gets fired up in a good heated battle. Girag is still something of a strategist and has a strong since of honor, same as Durbe. And Mizar is still a dragon tamer, though now he's much more twisted. The only ones that could be different are Nasch and Merag, but that's just because they were Shark and Rio for x amount of years. Though they still try to protect and look after each other like they did back then.--Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 07:29, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

I'm of the same mind as Rocketknight for their personalities ...so I'm confident its not me drawing parallels which aren't there... As such ...NumberHunter, if they were more similar in personality; would that then be grounds (all very hypothetical I know) for their to be an "except" to how reincarnations are normally dealt with - or rather not so much an exception as an "amendment"; if characters across reincarnations share sufficient personality they shall be covered on 1 page? - I suggest this - and this is the reason for my personal preference: that it would be easier to read 2 pages on similar characters Merag/Rio vs Rio original than read Rio/Merag and past life human Merag + past Barian Merag etc - which is where; linking back - could we put it to a vote to whetehr they share enough of a personality? ...Sorry I've zigzagged a lot >.> --slave(command•works) 07:38, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

(reset indent) No, you're fine Sardeth. What this boils down to really is the same point we had just established earlier. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 07:47, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Does anyone else agree or disagree with NMBRHNTR64's claim? --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 15:31, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

I think we are the only people involved in this conversation. XD NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 16:41, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Why are you guys still having these argument? There is no point in creating an article for Nasch and Merag before they began Barians and after they became Barians. It's no sense, but you guys have pointed out a good point of why we have two articles for Atem that I'm working to combine into on article. The reasons of why we are not having their own article, It is because they are same person, but without memories of their pasts that's all. (Bring it 'em --- User:Avatarr) 19:50, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

First off, this isn't an argument, it is a simple discussion. Second, we have changed the subject since then. Third, we have a right to discuss this here. And fourth, you should probably read the whole discussion before jumping in like that. NMBRHNTR64 (talk •

contribs) 20:18, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

I do know what I'm talk about and I didn't say you don't have the right to discuss. I'm just saying this is to much. We all know that Yami and Atem are same persons, so that its why I went on agreeing with what u have said to put them in one article. As for Nasch and Merag, they stay in their current pages because there is no point in having two separate pages for same old persons. You should take look at Pharaoh Atem. (Bring it 'em --- User:Avatarr) 20:31, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

@Avatarr, you've missed the point of the discussion entirely. We aren't talking about Atem and Yami, those were just examples. What we ARE talking about is whether the Barian Emperors's current and past lives should be split into separate pages.

@NMBRHNTR64, How's about we table this discussion until sometime later. I think the decision on whether or not to do as you propose for the Emperors will come down to how it all comes together by the end of this arc/season/series. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 23:59, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, I am a bit tired from all this anyway. NMBRHNTR64 (talk • contribs) 01:43, November 29, 2013 (UTC)

The articles should never have been split, none of the articles even have that much information on them that couldn't have been put into the original article, the one with their past/present lives. Nasch and Merag are the Barians as well as the human lives. We have known Shark as Ryoga all this time and I don't see why that should change on a technicality. Rio and Ryoga should be changed back to the way they were before and not have these stupidly named pointless empty articles. KasaiWolf (talk • contribs) 00:32, December 1, 2013 (UTC)

They're not stupid or pointless. Nasch and Merag were not the ones in the car crash, Shark and Rio were. To put the information pre-crash into this page and that of Shark/Nasch invites confusion and misinterpretation in that Nasch and Merag were Shark and Rio from birth, and that;s not true. --Rocket.knight.777 (talk • contribs) 20:50, December 2, 2013 (UTC)

Exactly. It the way that it happened that causes the problem. Had they simply died as Barians and then reincarnated as humans, we'd just keep one article for each. But that's not what happened. They literally took over the bodies of other people. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 03:06, December 3, 2013 (UTC)

Barian Empress

Should we refer Marin as a Barian Empress? --Dragon146 (talk • contribs) 16:43, January 4, 2014 (UTC)